tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post5078238716190742581..comments2023-03-23T12:56:01.177+00:00Comments on Scholar's Blog Spoiler Zone: King Of Shadows: Book Group DiscussionMichelehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15888298679182871669noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-682103983572611022007-02-10T16:12:00.000+00:002007-02-10T16:12:00.000+00:00Exactly ! That's why I enjoy reading novels with a...Exactly ! That's why I enjoy reading novels with an historical bent...<BR/><BR/>(And explains why I'm writing a story with an historical bent, as well !)Michelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15888298679182871669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-72352042941357730972007-02-10T15:04:00.000+00:002007-02-10T15:04:00.000+00:00One of the things I liked most about KING OF SHADO...One of the things I liked most about KING OF SHADOWS is the way Susan Cooper transports readers back to Elizabethan England. I am talking here about the aspects of everyday life--especially the sights and sounds and smells of the city--that she includes in the text. She brought ME back in time.<BR/>As I read the book, I almost felt I was there as an invisible observer.<BR/><BR/>Books like this are wonderful vehicles for providing young people with a sense of specific historical periods--and for helping those times come alive for them. Textbooks aren't the only way to teach history.Elaine Magliarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829330276633865868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-74951866885111949002007-02-09T19:28:00.000+00:002007-02-09T19:28:00.000+00:00I had seen the bit from the "Lost Lands" site, and...I had seen the bit from the "Lost Lands" site, and I had looked up the real Nat Field via Google, but the Guardian article was new to me, so thank you for sharing !Michelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15888298679182871669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-70637937673764671332007-02-09T19:22:00.000+00:002007-02-09T19:22:00.000+00:00Did anyone see this article with an interview with...Did anyone see this article with an interview with S Cooper: From the Grail to the Globe. http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/childrenandteens/0,,125318,00.html<BR/><BR/>and this from her website: http://www.thelostland.com/kosbook.htm (only a few lines, but still interesting!)<BR/><BR/>the wikipedia entry for nathaniel field: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_Field<BR/><BR/>from the globe website: http://www.globe-theatre.org.uk/nathan-field-actor.htm<BR/><BR/>I find it very interesting that SC decided to use a "real" person for the switch.Liz Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16671844475303001610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-89716641616722645362007-02-09T10:35:00.000+00:002007-02-09T10:35:00.000+00:00Actually, Lesley, I do see it as a normal child's ...Actually, Lesley, I do see it as a normal child's thing, which is why I'm slightly puzzled by people's dislike or feeling that it's over the top...<BR/><BR/>I know I had crushes as a child, and they were pretty intense...Michelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15888298679182871669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-50127752448543726832007-02-09T08:31:00.000+00:002007-02-09T08:31:00.000+00:00Don't you think that Nat's 'crush' is a normal chi...Don't you think that Nat's 'crush' is a normal childs thing? Most children get this feeling at some point, either for a teacher, a pop singer or a sports star. I think that as Nat is an actor in Shakesperian plays he is an ideal canditate for meeting Shakespeare and developing this 'crush'.<BR/>LesleyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-10475626043134036232007-02-09T06:36:00.000+00:002007-02-09T06:36:00.000+00:00Camille, I knew you'd mention the dedication - and...Camille, I knew you'd mention the dedication - and I see Liz B. did too...<BR/><BR/>It's interesting that so many of you are commenting on Nat's "crush" on Shakespeare...Michelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15888298679182871669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-4783933169226281092007-02-09T00:36:00.000+00:002007-02-09T00:36:00.000+00:00-- I'm torn about the switch. I believed it was o...-- I'm torn about the switch. I believed it was one of those time switch stories where things "just happened" -- that somehow both boys paths crossed and boom, switch -- until the realization that Arby is like Mr Highlander guy. I have a much easier time believing in the switch just happening (having read plenty of time slip books) but I'm still scratching my head about Mr Immortal.<BR/><BR/>-- thought this was a wonderful love story -- the love of theatre and Shakespeare shone thru out. (SC wrote this for her husband, right?)<BR/><BR/>-- speaking of love -- and I know I'll be alone on this one -- Nat's adoration of Shakespeare was almost too much for me; too much of a crush, much more than a father figure; a little too over the top (I get that SC was making the parallels to Nat's dad, but there was a part of me saying the emotion here is too much.)<BR/><BR/>-- my favorite Shakespeare book is Master Skylark by John Bennett. <BR/><BR/>-- I think as a kid, I would have loved King of Shadows; its the grown up in me that wonders about Arby's longevity & the exact aspects of Nat's crush<BR/><BR/>-- I loved the history part. I think sometimes that historical fiction can best be told thru straight forward time travel books, because then there is the perfect excuse to have modern bias and observations. Like how Nat noticed the smells etc; someone of the time wouldn't mention it<BR/><BR/>-- I want to spend my entire weekend watching Shakespeare plays or movies with Shakespeare in themLiz Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16671844475303001610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-41128563428499094892007-02-08T21:14:00.000+00:002007-02-08T21:14:00.000+00:00I originally read this book when it came out in 19...I originally read this book when it came out in 1999. The first thing I noticed was the dedication, "For my actor." I felt like I knew who she meant but of course, never could know for sure until last spring. She was at Tx Library Association meeting and when I had my moment with her, as she signed my books, I asked her if I was correct and she looked at me and very quietly said, "Yes." <BR/><BR/>I see the novel as a work of love about the theater and to her husband, Hume Cronyn.Camillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10422449200792287901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-82144816474016761992007-02-08T16:20:00.000+00:002007-02-08T16:20:00.000+00:00Great LittleWillow - I'll come and take a look !Mo...Great LittleWillow - I'll come and take a look !<BR/><BR/>MotherReader: that may be it ! I've not seen DPS *that* often (maybe three times in total), that it's fixed quite firmly in my head !Michelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15888298679182871669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-31720685116947769682007-02-08T14:43:00.000+00:002007-02-08T14:43:00.000+00:00Oh, I didn't think there was much in the parallel ...Oh, I didn't think there was much in the parallel of the stories of Dead Poet Society and King of Shadows. (though it's interesting that there is any). But several of the chosen scenes written about in King are the same (most "famous") scenes that were portrayed in DPS. So, I kept reading the scenes in King and thinking of the scenes as done in DPS. Of course, that may be that I saw that movie dozens of times in my youth.MotherReaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11274509991340797264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-64852880876429883212007-02-08T14:26:00.000+00:002007-02-08T14:26:00.000+00:00Re-posted my Book Group blurb at my LJ and added m...Re-posted my Book Group blurb at my LJ and added my comments from here to expand later. Waiting to post Gardens thoughts 'til next month. Reading SIR THURSDAY today/tomorrow.Little Willowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17058463472836988047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-60053333812148524342007-02-08T05:18:00.000+00:002007-02-08T05:18:00.000+00:00MotherReader: It's a time-slip book - which means ...MotherReader: It's a time-slip book - which means there's little concentration on the SF element of the story (as opposed to a time travel book, which does concentrate more on the SF element). It's a small distinction, but an important one, I think.<BR/><BR/>I must admit that I did remember <I>Dead Poet's Society</I>, but I think the similarities are superficial. The play is very important to both the central characters (in the film and the book), and they both interact with someone inspirational, but I think that's it, as Nat's a very different character to Neil Perry.<BR/><BR/>Sheila: You make a good point and one I should have brought up myself ! <BR/><BR/>LittleWillow: I too wanted more of Nat's life with Shakespeare, but I assumed that Cooper left that out for the sake of keeping the story moving...Michelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15888298679182871669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-15331553356965420252007-02-08T02:45:00.000+00:002007-02-08T02:45:00.000+00:00I wish more details had been shared about his time...I wish more details had been shared about his time living with Will himself. The idol worship was obvious (it's Shakespeare! fans would say) and seemed natural, but for kids who have never read his works or have little information about him, some more background might have been nice. <BR/><BR/>I love stories with a time-travel element - always have, always will - especially when they are meaty. This was a lighter read, and it definitely felt like wish fulfillment rather than a full-fledged action-adventure or a trying to figure out how-do-I-get-back-home? (or EARN-my-way-home) mystery.<BR/><BR/>Overall, I liked it. I like Shakespeare's works, and A Midsummer Night's Dream is my favorite Shakey comedy, so I enjoyed its inclusion and interpretation.Little Willowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17058463472836988047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-8339546155893990682007-02-08T02:23:00.000+00:002007-02-08T02:23:00.000+00:00To add to what Michele said, the switch also may h...To add to what Michele said, the switch also may have saved the 16th century Nathan Field's life, as well; if he hadn't been sent to the future, he may well have died of the plague. So, not only did the switch save Shakespeare, but it possibly saved both Nathan's, in different ways. And who knows how many other people were helped in a ripple effect, by coming into contact with those three people? So, although Arby says that the switch was to save Shakespeare, it's obvious that the reasons were much more complex than that.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16813084292265103896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-28316515188301016102007-02-07T22:38:00.000+00:002007-02-07T22:38:00.000+00:00I knew nothing about the book going in. I didn't r...I knew nothing about the book going in. I didn't read the inside cover, a review, or anything else. And that's relevant for me, because I was expecting a totally different book. Between the dark, creepy cover Michele showed (mine had the softer, gentler cover) and Michele's Sci-Fic/Fantasy preference, I thought it would be a more heavy and dark fantasy.<br /><br />But the fantasy element isn't actually in the book very much. It made me wonder at first what was the point of it being a time travel book if eighty percent of the book was going to take place in 1599. Especially since the time Nat spends in 1599 isn't trying to go back to his time or solve a mystery. He's just being and acting in that time. <br /><br />Later I realized that if it <em>wasn't</em> a time travel book, Nat wouldn't be able to point out the world of 1599 with the eyes of the outsider. So, while it needs to be a time travel book for the outsider perspective, it still seems a lot more like historical fiction.<br /><br />I've seen the Midsummer Night Dream movie, but I still found all the references to the play a little hard to keep track of. I'm curious how it reads when you don't know it at all. Did anyone else think of the scenes of the play as done in Dead Poet's Society? It may be just me because my cousin played that part in that movie.<br /><br />I wasn't crazy about the quick resolve ending of the time travel. I wanted more explanation or magic. <br /><br />Overall, I enjoyed the book. I wouldn't put it as one of my favorites, but a fun and interesting read for me.MotherReaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11274509991340797264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-39673406783484055522007-02-07T20:37:00.000+00:002007-02-07T20:37:00.000+00:00Thanks Lesley! I'm really glad you enjoyed it enou...Thanks Lesley! I'm really glad you enjoyed it enough to read it twice - and that it's inspired you to want to see some Shakespeare.<br /><br />Susan Cooper has written dozens of books - and continues to write them. I've read almost all her children's books (and reviews are on my main Blog). The Oxfordshire library service has most of them on its shelves...Michelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15888298679182871669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-89121870140666873222007-02-07T20:33:00.000+00:002007-02-07T20:33:00.000+00:00I really enjoyed this book, read the first time on...I really enjoyed this book, read the first time on Michele's recommendation but really enjoyed the re-read too.<br />I have to admit to never having read Shakespeare or seen one of his plays but after reading this book I now want to!<br />I think that the way Susan Cooper writes brings both worlds to life in an interesting and informative way. I am sure that young readers will enjoy reading this book and lose themselves in the story as I did.<br />Just one question, how many books has Susan Cooper written and does our library have all of them?<br />Great choice of book to set the discussion off Michele.<br />LesleyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-24179969678663013852007-02-07T20:27:00.000+00:002007-02-07T20:27:00.000+00:00I liked that exchange too, Erin...I liked that exchange too, Erin...Michelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15888298679182871669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-81252230682229346392007-02-07T20:24:00.000+00:002007-02-07T20:24:00.000+00:00It's not at all too late - I was hoping the discus...It's not at all too late - I was hoping the discussion would run for several days (if not a couple of weeks) !<br /><br />It's interesting that people find the business of the switch to be problematic. Of course, you can easily argue that no one person, not even a literary genius, is worth saving in that way - but then you'd be doing yourself out of a terrific story ! And besides, I feel the switch is as much about helping Nat, as it is about saving Shakespeare - I feel that there's no one else he could have opened up to as he needed to do, except Shakespeare...Michelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15888298679182871669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-65164656951431266072007-02-07T20:19:00.000+00:002007-02-07T20:19:00.000+00:00A favorite quote from the book:
"But theater? I...A favorite quote from the book:<br /><br /><br />"But theater? It's not a sport, it's not about winning, it's about people."<br /><br />"And applause," Gil said, needling. "All those lovely hands clapping. That's what we all like most."<br /><br />"Not true," Rachel said.<br /><br />He grinned at her. "An actor's not much use without an audience."<br /><br />"There you go then," said Rachel. "It's about people."Erinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15192628745431017199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-66994228130551018362007-02-07T20:05:00.000+00:002007-02-07T20:05:00.000+00:00Coming in late here, but hopefully not too late......Coming in late here, but hopefully not too late...<br /><br />I didn't get a chance to reread, but remember the book fairly well, and I loved it. As did both my daughters, who read it in their early teens. I love it for all the reasons Emma mentions, and many of Michele's reasons too. <br /><br />I do have a reservation, all the same, about the rationale for the switch, as a few other people have mentioned. Possibly it's a slightly different angle though, as I'm really more than a bit unhappy at the idea that the universe can be rearranged in order to save any one individual's life, though only as a sort of once-off thing. Is someone who is going to be viewed later as a literary genius more worth saving than anyone else? And why does someone else get to make that decision anyway? I agree in many ways that the book is stronger for leaving the hows and whys of the switch totally vague, but on the other hand, I do feel a bit uneasy about the expectation that the hows and whys can go unexplained in this case simply because it's <i>Shakespeare</i>.<br /><br />That said, it didn't bother me much while reading the book, as it was all about Nat and his experience with the players and back at home for me, but it did rather niggle a bit underneath. It's possible to let a lot of niggle of that sort go for the sake of a really strong story (which I felt this to be), but it didn't make the question entirely unproblematic either.Lady S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15082805324614635011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-13830758617665830642007-02-07T05:19:00.000+00:002007-02-07T05:19:00.000+00:00Erin, I'm totally envious !
actinggal, I'm glad t...Erin, I'm totally envious !<br /><br />actinggal, I'm glad that you enjoyed it so much...<br /><br />Has anyone here read James Shapiro's <i>1599: A Year in the Life of William Shakespeare</i> ? It's a thoroughly readable, historical and political biography of Shakespeare, and fills in all the background politics of <i>King of Shadows</i> in great detail. I can highly recommend it.Michelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15888298679182871669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-65211749645020430792007-02-07T03:33:00.000+00:002007-02-07T03:33:00.000+00:00This book was so amazing! I really enjoy acting an...This book was so amazing! I really enjoy acting and reading William Shakespeare’s writings.This book was perfect for me!!<br /><br />I participated in the theater production of A Midsummer Nights Dream a couple of years ago. It was so fun going back into the world of Oberon, Puck, and the fairies. I could totally relate to the actors and their joys and struggles. I give Susan Cooper two thumbs up for thinking up all that amazing stuff!Acting Galhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03580928542790942615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28767649.post-83305091000990547982007-02-06T22:41:00.000+00:002007-02-06T22:41:00.000+00:00I watched the play (in London, nonetheless!) and r...I watched the play (in London, nonetheless!) and read it AND was in it. So I think I got full enjoyment out of KoS. ;)Erinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15192628745431017199noreply@blogger.com